A certain Yuri appeared in the Montelibero project, who became interested in understanding what kind of people were joining it, what their motivations were, and so on. And so he began recording interviews with everyone he could reach. Well, to make sure such good work didn’t go to waste, they gave him management rights to the project’s YouTube channel, and now all the interviews are there, in a separate playlist.
It turned out that almost everyone during the interviews stated that they had read about the project via Ancap-chan. So Yuri came to me and also asked for an interview. In short, now in addition to a bunch of videos, there is one text-based one with me. And since I don’t like the look of a Google Doc, I think I’ll move this interview to my own website.
Interview with Ancap-chan about Monte Libero
September 2021, Yuri Vilnid
Tell us about yourself
What did you devote most of your time to last week?
My main work is running a personal Telegram channel. As usual, I devoted most of my time to it last week. I translated a fairly long chapter from the book “Libertarianism” by Eric Mack, wrote a couple of chapters for my own book about ancap, for which I haven’t come up with a title yet—basically, I was doing the usual routine. But on Saturday, I went to Albania to “de-virtualize” with one of my subscribers, and I’m still living here for now. In general, I love discovering new places and new people.
What is the last book you read that significantly influenced you?
In recent years, I’ve mostly been reading non-fiction, and the one that influenced me most strongly was “The Machinery of Freedom” by David Friedman, which I translated for my channel. From fiction, I could probably name “We the Living” by Ayn Rand; it’s the first or one of the first books she wrote, partially autobiographical, about the early years of Soviet Russia, which she escaped, becoming a so-called “non-returnee.” I left Russia partly under the influence of this book.
What is the last thing you did for the community?
I told my subscriber, with whom I am now in Albania, in detail about Montelibero, and next week we will go show him the plot. Most likely, he will invest in the land, and then, who knows, he might move here.
What was the last thing you did for your soul? (creativity, hobbies, self-education)
I love swimming very much. The trip to Albania also became an opportunity for me to extend summer a bit. I continue to swim about a kilometer every day. And putting physical adventures aside, I recently finished reading James C. Scott’s book “The Art of Not Being Governed”, and now I treat anarcho-primitivists with much greater respect. I’ll probably write something in the channel about this once the thoughts in my head are fully formed.
Relocation
When did you first think about changing your place of residence (approximately—month, year)?
2014.
What events made you think about this?
There was such a militaristic hysteria in Russia that I suddenly wanted to run away from it as far as possible. For example, it was at this time that I first had a fundamental disagreement with my parents, and now in our mutual communication, we filter the discourse, trying not to touch upon painful topics.
What attracted you to the idea of moving? What held you back?
What attracted me to the idea of moving was that I could stop saying that I am from Russia. Being Russian became shameful—at that time, there was a complete feeling that no matter which Russian you poked, they would turn out to be an imperialist. For the same reason, the idea of living in neighboring Serbia, for example, seems very doubtful to me.
What held me back was the lack of understanding as to who would need me there.
What happened next—what milestones can you note? (month, year)
During the period 2014-2018, I closed myself off a bit, going into internal emigration. I made a living through copywriting and tried not to even look at the political field.
The first milestone—at the end of August 2018, I was offered to run the “Ancap-chan” channel. I partially adapted its style to my own. But I changed much more myself, because I had to read quite a lot about libertarianism, and that changes people.
The second milestone—in December 2019, I was offered to move to Montenegro and write articles on agorism here. I agreed literally five minutes after a brief reflection, which greatly surprised the inviter, who expected doubts and agonizing deliberations.
What problems did you want to solve by moving?
I wanted to start moving from the theory of libertarianism to practice. Practice is the building of a libertarian community offline, similar to what the Free Staters in New Hampshire did. For this, it is quite acceptable, especially in the initial stages, for each member of the community to earn money in the external market, because what is being tested first and foremost is the possibility of long-term coexistence, contrary to claims that anarcho-capitalists (ancaps) are blatant individualists who are fundamentally incapable of creating and maintaining communities.
If you were only thinking about moving now, what would you do differently?
I was invited in winter, but I only arrived in the country at the end of May because I was putting my affairs in order, selling things, renewing my passport, and so on. Moreover, the country was closed due to Covid. Now I would try to succeed much faster, so that by winter I would definitely be here.
What obstacles did you have to overcome?
I had to get vaccinated (although, as it turned out, I could have done without it). I had to sell my bicycle, which I very much regret, as they are incredibly expensive here. I had to explain things to my parents, but that was actually the easiest part.
Compare the expectations of the move and the reality
I had heard about “polako” (the local habit of doing everything in a relaxed manner), but I didn’t expect that this phenomenon would be so depressing. The most egregious example is the behavior of our road contractor, who by contract committed to finish all work by the beginning of July, but in the end performed them not in full and with a great delay.
How did you solve the problem of the lack of qualified work on the spot?
First, my channel is not tied to a specific place, as long as there is internet. Second, in 2018, starting the channel, I got acquainted with bitcoins. I was handed the channel and the key to a wallet for donations, where a little bit of bitcoin already lay, after which I had a short briefing on how to work with it, and then I was shown Saifedean Ammous’s book “The Bitcoin Standard”.
At that time, I managed to buy bitcoins almost at the bottom, and the modest donations collected in crypto back then now look like royal gifts. So now I can afford to spend more time than I earn for a while.
Where are you living while you build?
I rent a cheap studio on the outskirts of the city of Bar; I maintain quite friendly relations with the landlord.
What does your cost structure look like and how much does life cost?
Fixed monthly expenses look like this: 120 euros for rent, 25 euros for electricity, 10 for internet, 150 euros for groceries, 150 euros for trips and establishments. Besides this, there are one-time expenses, which will decrease as I settle into the country.
Legalization
Do you have a residence permit (VNZH)?
The Montelibero foundation helped me get it by hiring me into the staff of the company that bought the land. I pay for this partially by working on the project, and partially, apparently, I will reimburse it with money.
Banks
Can a person with a residence permit open a bank account and transfer money to themselves from another country?
An account was opened for me as an employee of the company; a white salary drops into it, a quarter of the minimum rate. Theoretically, I could transfer money to this account, but banks here manage to take commissions even for receiving, let alone sending, so I would prefer to do without that and accept in bitcoins.
How accurate is the statement: “On the other hand, there are jurisdictions so tenderly loved by Russians, such as Montenegro and Thailand, which have not joined the auto-exchange at all yet.” Vedomosti (meaning they do not participate in the automatic exchange with the RF).
I haven’t looked into it. The banking sphere in Montenegro is more dead than alive for me. In Russia, I almost forgot how to hold banknotes in my hands; here I am getting used to it again.
Are there examples of RF citizens using foreign bank accounts without notifying the tax office?
Of course, I do not intend to notify the RF authorities of anything; this country is completely illegitimate to me.
Business Incubator
What obstacles do you see on the path to cooperation among free people of good will?
The small size of the community. In a world with a high level of specialization, a person needs a fairly large market to find customers for their services and suppliers for all their needs. Let alone the libertarians of Montenegro—even the entire Russian-speaking diaspora in Montenegro is not yet self-sufficient, so one has to look far beyond just their own.
What is needed to stimulate the provision of person-to-person services? (fitness trainer, massage therapist, vocal teacher, etc.).
Increasing the number of people in the community and the informational connectivity within it.
What businesses could be in demand?
The most unexpected ones. I, for example, cannot wait for the local master to fix my scooter—and he’s almost the only one in all of Bar. There are plenty of car services here, but moto services are kind of stale. On the other hand, for example, the beauty industry is quite developed, and those wishing to enter this market will face competition.
The Monte Libero Project
Can you recall your last conversation with an acquaintance to whom you told about the project?
Since I share an apartment with my last acquaintance, the conversation is not a single instance, but rather we simply refer to this topic from time to time. I’ll show photos of the plot, or complain about the road contractor, or tell how in early June I found myself waving a chainsaw, or mention project partners as they come up in conversation. He sees that I am passionate about this topic and already really wants to see for himself what this Montelibero is all about.
What questions did your acquaintance ask you?
The cost of the land. How much I bought it for (I mention this below in the text). Why so little. What kind of house I intend to build. Whose services I will use. In short, quite detailed and practical questions.
What fears or obstacles did they voice?
Strange, but it seems none. Only interest.
Which conversation with MTL-people has been memorable lately? Who did you speak with and what exactly was memorable?
Igal Hofman met some creative guys from Budva, and we took them to show our land to see about organizing a music festival there. And they looked at the sawn-off branches and twigs and declared, like, to hell with the old concept, we need to do a bonfire festival here. Now we are working through this new idea.
Which of the project participants would you recommend inviting for the next interviews?
Heinrich Polyanyin, if he can be talked into it. He’s the one who invited me to Montenegro.
What do you personally want from the project?
Tactical goal—a friendly libertarian community, united not only by a common ideology, but also by neighborhood. Medium-term goal—creating a platform for accepting political emigrant-libertarians, as they seem to be heading to Georgia more and more. Long-term—influence on the local political climate towards increasing freedom.
What actions confirm this?
I actively communicate with people interested in the project; I devote an unexpectedly large amount of effort (for me) to constant offline communication among project participants who have moved to the country. I think it’s very important to maintain a sense of community among those who moved. We are a gang. Of international scale. We are sawing a massive project. This is much more inspiring rhetoric than “we are refugees from an authoritarian regime trying to survive somehow.”
I continue to run the channel about libertarianism, including writing a book which, I hope, will become a convenient entry point for getting acquainted with our ideology.
What help do you need for this? How can you be supported, and what would you spend additional money on that came after the publication of this material?
A bit of money wouldn’t hurt))) The less you think about your daily bread, the more attention you can devote to working on Montelibero.
How to support—https://ancapchan.info/donate. There are fiat tools there, as well as several options for crypto
I recently spent 34 thousand rubles on a Serbian language course, which put my September budget in the negative, so additional money would allow me to at least break even in my fourth month in the country.
Purchase of Land and House Construction
What values do you see in the project of building your own house?
I think it will be an interesting transition to a new stage of development for me: my land, my rules, the ability to arrange everything, if not entirely to my taste, then at least conveniently enough for myself. Having a base in the form of my own house, I can practice various strange and previously unavailable hobbies: gardening, rakia brewing, fig drying, and who knows what else might come to mind. Maybe I’ll even open a Y-club 🙂 (the term Y-club from Alex Rozov’s Meganesia book cycle means a club for amateur prostitution in a free-access mode).
What problems do you expect it to solve?
The only fundamental problem solved by a house is the removal of dependence on the owner of a rented dwelling. This must be paid for with a large one-time expenditure for building the house, as well as a sharp increase in the level of responsibility.
What alternative ways of solving these problems did you consider?
The alternative to building your own house is buying a finished one. However, I’m not just building a house. I’m building a house in a libertarian village. I care not only about the walls, but also about the neighbors behind the walls. Not only the roof over my head, but the roof of a libertarian jurisdiction.
Can you elaborate on the “roof”?
If rules are determined by the state, then indeed, rules of coexistence are followed without any libertarianism. I absolutely hated it in Germany when the landlady of the apartment we visited whispered to us to go up the stairs as quietly as possible, otherwise the neighbors would report us to the municipality.
But for me, it is much more organic to understand that if a person becomes very arrogant and ignores the interests of others, it’s not some vague official who comes to them, but a delegation of polite neighbors, and they start figuring out how to settle the problem as painlessly as possible.
Why invest money and a ton of time in a house, if you can invest that money in crypto and rent? After all, bitcoin’s growth potential is incomparably higher than a house’s. (although the probability of an ideal outcome is lower)
I did invest in crypto for a while. Now it has paid off, and I can give my life a new quality (although not without the help of my parents as well; I’m a libertarian to my dad)))
How, while remaining inside a state, can you guarantee the absence of external influence from its side? Roughly speaking, if Montenegro wants to take this territory, it will take it.
Montenegro was chosen in part because land property rights are protected here. Protected not by the state, but by folk tradition. These are “selyuki”—for them, land is sacred.
No, of course, I’ve heard horror stories about fraud during land registration, when ownership rights turned out to be insufficiently clearly defined, but it was always pointed out that if the law cannot find fault, if there is registered land and a registered building on it, then the land is not threatened, and this norm is strictly observed by everyone.
Can you show the estimate for the land and the house?
The land estimate is roughly as follows:
- €70k went to the purchase of a hectare of land (for the whole village),
- €25k—for the road,
- €5k—for clearing, plus other smaller expenses.
Until the moment this hectare is divided into separate plots that can be bought out, the price will increase further. For the house, I’m budgeting no more than €400 per square meter, which is modest but realistic. I’ll build one floor first, live in it, and the second—somehow in the future.
Payment upfront, in installments, or with interest?
I agreed on installments for the land; for the house, expenses will be broken down into many stages.
What did you do regarding the plot or house last week?
I earned money)))
What taxes and when will you have to pay for the house?
Taxes are paid once upon purchase, once upon receiving the urbanization plan (so-called communalities), and a relatively small amount is also expected annually. I’m not familiar with the detailed figures yet. It’s known that communalities are the largest tax, 70 euros per square meter of living space, but it can be paid in installments for almost 30 years, which is what I will do.